SYSH: Choosing a Moveset
Feb 14, 2007 22:33:06 GMT -5
Post by OrochiGeese on Feb 14, 2007 22:33:06 GMT -5
Note: This guide was written and donated by Spunkwhy, and slightly adapted by Motosada. I'm posting it here since the PW-W site (it's original home) had some issues and I just want to give this guide a home here along with the NDP site I re-found it on. Thanks to Moto for storing it and helping me out with posting it. A lot of this guide has logic limits from other feds. As you know, OG-Joshi doesn't have real hard and fast rules, rather: just guidelines. So you don't have to change your edits to match rules listed by PW-W and NDP here. This is just intended for reference. Remember, these "Sh*t you should know guides are just for helpful reference, they aren't OG-Joshi rules even though I do sometimes follow the theories mentioned here.I linked this guide in the "How to Join OG-Joshi" thread months ago, so now I'm just posting these guides. No one should feel that they have to change their edits now 
"The moveset is one of the most glaringly obvious parts of the edit. It is how your character communicates and entertains with us. I've already gone over logic a little bit, but now is for the moveset.
A wrestlers style depends on the set of moves you pick for him. When you lose the style, all hope is lost, and the matches suck. Welcome, my son.. To the machine - E-FEDDING WITH FIRE PRO!!! From the ever boring "Spotty" edit with moves that are 'cool' tacked on, to the super HOSS that has a shooting star press, there are a lot of @#%$ confusing things going on with movesets in the e-world we operate in. Curious as to how to avoid being a BANNED~! edit? Or just wanting to expand your knowledge on such things, then read on my son, as I will take you into a journey to the center of.. Uh.. Pro-Wres?
I. Fight/Return Style and you (aka: Why Move Affinities can BlOW me)
II. Weak moves, and why you need them (aka: Slow Love)
III. Pick a style, bitch (aka: PICK A STYLE, BITCH!)
IV. Finish him (aka: How to win matches that don't suck)
V. Be consistant (aka: Stop updating your @#%$ movelist every month)
VI. Closing (aka: I'm done)
I. Fight and Return styles
Oh how I loathe you. So many fight styles, so few used. Picking the right fight style is important, but also, its not a big f'n deal as everyone acts like it is. Why people feel the need to pick a fight style that all the moves have an A affinity is really beyond me. Just about no premade character in the game operates like this. And yet, so many Fire Pro edits I see have nothing but A and B level moves. I don't know if people are just picking moves that have a high affinity, or if they are seriously that lucky to pick a moveset and somehow, end up with all A moves.
Of course, things like Panther and Giant are some of the worst ones around. And yes, they are banned or restricted. So don't even ask. Actually, I won't flat out say they are banned, its just that you can't use them. If your character over time, adheres to a certain style, and impresses me enough, you can be awarded one of those devilish fight/return styles. But for the record, if you give me an edit with any of those, you will be turned away. So don't bother. Tough luck. They just aren't fair. And what people need to realize is that, affinity really means jack @#%$ in the grand scheme of things. There are degrees where its just overwhelmingly cheap, like edits with all A and B moves won't get tired as easily, and will just keep coming. This really isn't fair, because just about no pro-wrestler can do this.
I mean, by all means, pick a different fight/return style, but just make sure it works.
II. Weak moves, and why you need them
Building up to your bigger moves is a must. A MUST. So many people neglect the early parts of their movesets and jump right into adding strong grapple moves and picking the 'cool' looking A and AB level grapples. This isn't WWE, where after a few punches, someone hits a DDT, a spinebuster, a few more punches and then a finisher.. Or a Kurt Angle match where after a few punches, its time to go for about 40 german suplexes. You should have a moveset that not only makes sense when it comes to crunch time, but that makes sense throughout. If you do no armwork, and are a high flying junior, why do you have a flying cross arm bar from a standing strike? Its stuff like this that baffles me, really.
Some of the most oft abused moves sections are the standing strikes and running/run counter moves. Just because every move is available in both run and run counter moves, doesn't mean you need to have two high level moves. You don't need, for example, 4 different kinds of lariats or kneel kicks. Just because at standing AB you can select a high kick or a standing side kick, doesn't mean you should. It is generally a good rule of thumb to select 2 weak strikes, and yes, they need to VARY.. I @#%$ HATE those edits that have a 1 in punch and have all kicks assigned, and vice versa. You aren't fooling anyone, that you are a cheap ass prick.
Small damage grapples aren't as pointless as everyone thinks they are. The first few minutes of the match is going to be largely these moves, so just assigning whatever is just going to piss me off. You probably don't need a dragon screw if you are a high flying junior that doesn't have a single leg lock in your moveset, and you should be a bit more creative than the 'ole standby of junior using the arm drag, a body slam and a snapmare followed by a dragon screw. Make your weak grapples build logically to your medium and strong grapples. There are a good amount of strikes in there for a reason, because its a good way to start working over a body part, and yes.. There are moves that affect every body part in the weak grapples. Check it out sometime, you'll be surprised.
Moving onto medium damage, there is a world outside of the standard DDT, piledriver and snap suplex. These can be some of the most important moves in your moveset. Lets say you have the double arm suplex hold or a Tiger Driver as a special.. Well, why not throw on a double arm suplex to the fray? So now you will be doing a move that logically, you have built up to. Lets go back to the DDT, its a great transition move, especially if you work up to bigger and better things from the front facelock. Like for example, Spunk has a DDT in medium level, and a neck chancre in strong grapple. Right there, I've linked those moves together, and logically showed how my character changes his tactics throughout a match.
Large damage is where, sadly, people still have major problems. This is why the 'Big Freaking Moves' rule was brought in. Quite honestly, I don't want to see edits like I used to see. Its generally a good idea to at least have one strike or submission, and maybe one pinning move in the fray. There is nothing more boring than an edit with a bunch of huge moves that make no sense. My advice for you is to go watch a Giant Baba match and stuff a sock in your mouth.. Look! An exciting wrestler that isn't using all head drops and high impact moves! DEAR LORD!
III. Pick a style, bitch
Sorry Jay, but this is the Jay Rudawa syndrome. One of the most confusing edits I've ever witnessed, I couldn't figure out why he was doing half of the moves he was doing anymore. High kicks, Lygerbombs, Iron Claws, along with shoot stuff, all the while pulling off highspots all the time, while wearing bright red pants!? Dear lord, I'm sorry, I just don't get it. This also applies to people that have a power oriented moveset, and decide they need an array of Michinoku Drivers and a 450 to top it off. Leave the high flying to the light-heavies, son. Not everyone can be Keiji Mutoh.. And even then, Mutoh, whom started off as a junior doesn't do skytwister presses, his 'high flying' is limited to moonsaults and missle dropkicks.
Also, not every wrestler is fit for submission wrestling, or for using mounts. Use them wisely. Armbars, legbars, etc really aren't for the Stone Cold brawler type.. Look at Jason Blackhart, no jujigatames (arm bar) there, because he isn't a submission wrestler.. He just has his sasorigatame (sharp shooter) to finish with.
Don't try to limit yourself by thinking you have created a 'new style of your own' or anything. Pick moves that make sense, build up to each other, and that the character would be doing. A high flying junior shouldn't be doing triple powerbombs, and a Power wrestler shouldn't be going up top to do anything Vader couldn't do.
IV. Finish him
Lets be clear on something here, not everyone can be a Kenta Kobashi or a Misawa with a long list of moves that are capable of pulling out the dupe. Submission wrestlers have a bit more leighway, like for example Ti'en winning with a hiza jujigatame ('leg bar') is no big deal. No, its not a special, but he is a former shoot fighter, and thats his angle: Winning using his submission skills. Not everyone should be finishing with submissions out of the blue. Sure, young guys winning with a boston crab is cool, they are looking to win with anything..
And I know people like to have big, rare, killer moves. Like their own Burning Hammer or TD '91. Not everyone needs to have a big killer move. I can't stress this enough. It devalues big moves when you have someone using it as a 'big killer' move, when really, they don't need it. Your edit should be getting the job done without having to resort to big moves.. And if they do pull out a big move, it should be a rare mark out. Some of the most abused moves are the back suplexes in this way of thinking. The Cobra Clutch and Chickenwing suplex are the ones most seen, and for no real reason. Not every man needs a giant headdrop to finish people with. Maybe after your character is a couple of YEARS (yes, I said YEARS) old, you will have the need for a super rare big move. This also applies to top rope moves like the SSP and phoenix splash. I refuse to see a match where this is happening for no reason (deMun, I'm looking at you, brah).
Specials and finishers are of course, moves you WANT to be winning with, but that doesn't mean that you can only win with those moves. Sometimes a flash pin with a roll up or a win with a powerbomb or german suplex hold can be just as awesome as winning with your finishing move. Try to stay away from those ground tech pins as your only pins at near death though.. As there is nothing more of a buzzkill than someone hitting like, a spicy drop finisher, then winning with a jacknife hold.. I mean, you just hit your BIG MOVE, and you had to win with a @#%$ roll up? It devalues the move you hit for the win, and just confuses the people watching.
V. Be consistant
A huge problem is people lose their frame of mind, and decide to scrap the edit and change it all over. We have probably seen about 234239048234092384 Chapel Hillcrest edits in the past year. This is bad because he could never really settle on something, and there's just a huge time where you don't know wtf is going on.
Its very hard to 'mark out' for moves when they are changing all the time. Part of having a finisher is to finish with it, and finish with it for a period of months so people buy it as a finisher. You can equate certain moves to certain people, and that's the way it should be. Jason Blackhart, Decepticon Driver.. Dave Fairbairn, MetsuKen (You hear that Dave?
).. Spunk, Spunk Shot.. Geese, Raging Bolt.. Once you find a finishing technique and specials you like, TRY to stick with them. It helps to make them more legit over time. Moves like Dave's Fatman Slam, Spunk's ClimaxXX German and Wren's GCF are moves that have always, and probably will always be at least a special on the moveset.
VI. Closing
Hopefully you've picked up a few pointers on how to build a moveset that will lead to a good match through this.. If not, I dunno..
Until next time I feel like typing up a rant like this, later.
"The moveset is one of the most glaringly obvious parts of the edit. It is how your character communicates and entertains with us. I've already gone over logic a little bit, but now is for the moveset.
A wrestlers style depends on the set of moves you pick for him. When you lose the style, all hope is lost, and the matches suck. Welcome, my son.. To the machine - E-FEDDING WITH FIRE PRO!!! From the ever boring "Spotty" edit with moves that are 'cool' tacked on, to the super HOSS that has a shooting star press, there are a lot of @#%$ confusing things going on with movesets in the e-world we operate in. Curious as to how to avoid being a BANNED~! edit? Or just wanting to expand your knowledge on such things, then read on my son, as I will take you into a journey to the center of.. Uh.. Pro-Wres?
I. Fight/Return Style and you (aka: Why Move Affinities can BlOW me)
II. Weak moves, and why you need them (aka: Slow Love)
III. Pick a style, bitch (aka: PICK A STYLE, BITCH!)
IV. Finish him (aka: How to win matches that don't suck)
V. Be consistant (aka: Stop updating your @#%$ movelist every month)
VI. Closing (aka: I'm done)
I. Fight and Return styles
Oh how I loathe you. So many fight styles, so few used. Picking the right fight style is important, but also, its not a big f'n deal as everyone acts like it is. Why people feel the need to pick a fight style that all the moves have an A affinity is really beyond me. Just about no premade character in the game operates like this. And yet, so many Fire Pro edits I see have nothing but A and B level moves. I don't know if people are just picking moves that have a high affinity, or if they are seriously that lucky to pick a moveset and somehow, end up with all A moves.
Of course, things like Panther and Giant are some of the worst ones around. And yes, they are banned or restricted. So don't even ask. Actually, I won't flat out say they are banned, its just that you can't use them. If your character over time, adheres to a certain style, and impresses me enough, you can be awarded one of those devilish fight/return styles. But for the record, if you give me an edit with any of those, you will be turned away. So don't bother. Tough luck. They just aren't fair. And what people need to realize is that, affinity really means jack @#%$ in the grand scheme of things. There are degrees where its just overwhelmingly cheap, like edits with all A and B moves won't get tired as easily, and will just keep coming. This really isn't fair, because just about no pro-wrestler can do this.
I mean, by all means, pick a different fight/return style, but just make sure it works.
II. Weak moves, and why you need them
Building up to your bigger moves is a must. A MUST. So many people neglect the early parts of their movesets and jump right into adding strong grapple moves and picking the 'cool' looking A and AB level grapples. This isn't WWE, where after a few punches, someone hits a DDT, a spinebuster, a few more punches and then a finisher.. Or a Kurt Angle match where after a few punches, its time to go for about 40 german suplexes. You should have a moveset that not only makes sense when it comes to crunch time, but that makes sense throughout. If you do no armwork, and are a high flying junior, why do you have a flying cross arm bar from a standing strike? Its stuff like this that baffles me, really.
Some of the most oft abused moves sections are the standing strikes and running/run counter moves. Just because every move is available in both run and run counter moves, doesn't mean you need to have two high level moves. You don't need, for example, 4 different kinds of lariats or kneel kicks. Just because at standing AB you can select a high kick or a standing side kick, doesn't mean you should. It is generally a good rule of thumb to select 2 weak strikes, and yes, they need to VARY.. I @#%$ HATE those edits that have a 1 in punch and have all kicks assigned, and vice versa. You aren't fooling anyone, that you are a cheap ass prick.
Small damage grapples aren't as pointless as everyone thinks they are. The first few minutes of the match is going to be largely these moves, so just assigning whatever is just going to piss me off. You probably don't need a dragon screw if you are a high flying junior that doesn't have a single leg lock in your moveset, and you should be a bit more creative than the 'ole standby of junior using the arm drag, a body slam and a snapmare followed by a dragon screw. Make your weak grapples build logically to your medium and strong grapples. There are a good amount of strikes in there for a reason, because its a good way to start working over a body part, and yes.. There are moves that affect every body part in the weak grapples. Check it out sometime, you'll be surprised.
Moving onto medium damage, there is a world outside of the standard DDT, piledriver and snap suplex. These can be some of the most important moves in your moveset. Lets say you have the double arm suplex hold or a Tiger Driver as a special.. Well, why not throw on a double arm suplex to the fray? So now you will be doing a move that logically, you have built up to. Lets go back to the DDT, its a great transition move, especially if you work up to bigger and better things from the front facelock. Like for example, Spunk has a DDT in medium level, and a neck chancre in strong grapple. Right there, I've linked those moves together, and logically showed how my character changes his tactics throughout a match.
Large damage is where, sadly, people still have major problems. This is why the 'Big Freaking Moves' rule was brought in. Quite honestly, I don't want to see edits like I used to see. Its generally a good idea to at least have one strike or submission, and maybe one pinning move in the fray. There is nothing more boring than an edit with a bunch of huge moves that make no sense. My advice for you is to go watch a Giant Baba match and stuff a sock in your mouth.. Look! An exciting wrestler that isn't using all head drops and high impact moves! DEAR LORD!
III. Pick a style, bitch
Sorry Jay, but this is the Jay Rudawa syndrome. One of the most confusing edits I've ever witnessed, I couldn't figure out why he was doing half of the moves he was doing anymore. High kicks, Lygerbombs, Iron Claws, along with shoot stuff, all the while pulling off highspots all the time, while wearing bright red pants!? Dear lord, I'm sorry, I just don't get it. This also applies to people that have a power oriented moveset, and decide they need an array of Michinoku Drivers and a 450 to top it off. Leave the high flying to the light-heavies, son. Not everyone can be Keiji Mutoh.. And even then, Mutoh, whom started off as a junior doesn't do skytwister presses, his 'high flying' is limited to moonsaults and missle dropkicks.
Also, not every wrestler is fit for submission wrestling, or for using mounts. Use them wisely. Armbars, legbars, etc really aren't for the Stone Cold brawler type.. Look at Jason Blackhart, no jujigatames (arm bar) there, because he isn't a submission wrestler.. He just has his sasorigatame (sharp shooter) to finish with.
Don't try to limit yourself by thinking you have created a 'new style of your own' or anything. Pick moves that make sense, build up to each other, and that the character would be doing. A high flying junior shouldn't be doing triple powerbombs, and a Power wrestler shouldn't be going up top to do anything Vader couldn't do.
IV. Finish him
Lets be clear on something here, not everyone can be a Kenta Kobashi or a Misawa with a long list of moves that are capable of pulling out the dupe. Submission wrestlers have a bit more leighway, like for example Ti'en winning with a hiza jujigatame ('leg bar') is no big deal. No, its not a special, but he is a former shoot fighter, and thats his angle: Winning using his submission skills. Not everyone should be finishing with submissions out of the blue. Sure, young guys winning with a boston crab is cool, they are looking to win with anything..
And I know people like to have big, rare, killer moves. Like their own Burning Hammer or TD '91. Not everyone needs to have a big killer move. I can't stress this enough. It devalues big moves when you have someone using it as a 'big killer' move, when really, they don't need it. Your edit should be getting the job done without having to resort to big moves.. And if they do pull out a big move, it should be a rare mark out. Some of the most abused moves are the back suplexes in this way of thinking. The Cobra Clutch and Chickenwing suplex are the ones most seen, and for no real reason. Not every man needs a giant headdrop to finish people with. Maybe after your character is a couple of YEARS (yes, I said YEARS) old, you will have the need for a super rare big move. This also applies to top rope moves like the SSP and phoenix splash. I refuse to see a match where this is happening for no reason (deMun, I'm looking at you, brah).
Specials and finishers are of course, moves you WANT to be winning with, but that doesn't mean that you can only win with those moves. Sometimes a flash pin with a roll up or a win with a powerbomb or german suplex hold can be just as awesome as winning with your finishing move. Try to stay away from those ground tech pins as your only pins at near death though.. As there is nothing more of a buzzkill than someone hitting like, a spicy drop finisher, then winning with a jacknife hold.. I mean, you just hit your BIG MOVE, and you had to win with a @#%$ roll up? It devalues the move you hit for the win, and just confuses the people watching.
V. Be consistant
A huge problem is people lose their frame of mind, and decide to scrap the edit and change it all over. We have probably seen about 234239048234092384 Chapel Hillcrest edits in the past year. This is bad because he could never really settle on something, and there's just a huge time where you don't know wtf is going on.
Its very hard to 'mark out' for moves when they are changing all the time. Part of having a finisher is to finish with it, and finish with it for a period of months so people buy it as a finisher. You can equate certain moves to certain people, and that's the way it should be. Jason Blackhart, Decepticon Driver.. Dave Fairbairn, MetsuKen (You hear that Dave?
).. Spunk, Spunk Shot.. Geese, Raging Bolt.. Once you find a finishing technique and specials you like, TRY to stick with them. It helps to make them more legit over time. Moves like Dave's Fatman Slam, Spunk's ClimaxXX German and Wren's GCF are moves that have always, and probably will always be at least a special on the moveset.VI. Closing
Hopefully you've picked up a few pointers on how to build a moveset that will lead to a good match through this.. If not, I dunno..
Until next time I feel like typing up a rant like this, later.