How to Join OG-Joshi

[OrochiGeese]

This thread is mainly intended for potential new members but it's information can be helpful to all of us


The first post is more procedural, general info. The second and third posts are edit advice.


I. GENERAL THOUGHTS


It was once brought to my attention that there was no "How to join" info on our board. Good point!! It was also recently brought to my attention that emus enjoy easy listening music.

So the moral of this story, and how it related to OG-Joshi is this:


OrochiGeese/Hank Scorpio: You will notice, my new best friend, that we are pretty casual around here."

New Joshi members/Homer Simpson: "Yes, sir. I will notice that." LOL


If you would like to join OG-Joshi, send me an email at orochi_geese AT hotmail.com


I won't say anything much more informative in email than I will say here but I like to have a working relationship with each member and send frequent emails to all involved. Plus you may have character specific or any questions you might want to ask. The overall idea is that I work with your character and your potential storylines. And I want you to feel free to email me and ask for any input. I will do the same. OG-Joshi runs best with communication: with me and members you are working angles with.

This isn't a competitive fed. It's not a "shoot" fed. Win/loss records don't matter. What we are doing here is working together to provide each other and our fans with entertainment. In order to provide that, we here at OG-Joshi work WITH each other rather then against each other.

(And this is a great time to add in a personal note. The first two years of OG-Joshi has showcased that "work with each other" philosophy better then I could have imagined. OG-Joshi pioneers, i salute you!)

And for OG- Joshi, "overall entertainment" is defined by close, exciting, competitive matches with great endings (thanks to FPR for now making this more possible!) and entertaining promos, characters, and feuds.


II. Promo'ing/RP'ing


That brings me to promoin'g, or "the ancient sumerian art of RP'ing".

There are no minimum/maximum limits for RP'ing. But the more thoughtfulness you put into your RP's, characters, and feuds, the more fun we'll likely all have.

"(Unless your character is seriously meant to be the female equivalent of Chris Masters or Randy Orton. In that case, tears of agony will result and will stain the very soul of the internet). "

You don't need to do 50 promos a week to show that thoughtfulness. And if you are just starting out with e-fedding, my advice is to slowly pace yourselves and gradually become comfortable with it. And realize that some people can do more with 1 promo a week (or even month) then others can with 8 an hour. (Then there's me, who bludgeons people with a novel for each RP!) RP frequency can be a character trait itself.

And if you are new to RP'ing...and feel uncomfortable with this new medium...relax and just have fun with it. Chances are it will be worlds better then my first RP in 2002...when i had my character training in a dojo on a stormy night while doing a hurricane kick Can't get much worse!


III. Edit making

Even if you don't have the latest (or any) Fire Pro game, you will be accepted into OG-Joshi. If you don't have the game, you can always make a template for me and I can work it in.

As for making your edit, i do not have any specific hard rules for what makes a great OG-Joshi edit.

I'm always happy to help out and am sometimes in a good position to because I sim every edit against each other constantly. So I have a good idea about what every edit is like and requires as close opponents.

A good OG-Joshi edit isn't one that always wins, it's one that is competitive with the other edits and has great, entertaining, character driven matches. I've seen my Holly edit lose 10 matches in a row, but didn't change a thing because of the way she lost them...closely, and within a hair (or grapple) of winning.

If you are coming from another e-fed, especially the long running Fire Pro e-feds like FPN, NDP, PW-W, etc, then chances are you are starting off with a great edit that might not even need to be tweaked.

If you are starting fresh, i recommend checking out a couple of documents on edit-making in general. These are not rules as much as guidelines and ideas:

Jason Blackhart's FPW Engine Guide

Lord Vermin's edit making advice - VERY helpful!

Choice of move advice from Spunkwhy of PW-W

CPU LOGIC Advice from Spunkwhy of PW-W

Carlzilla and Denizen's excellent original edit guide!

A lot of WRITING exercises and advice compiled by Twinky of almost every FP e-fed in the history of EVER!

(I especially recommend this Chapter 25 character building exercise)


So yeah, all of this info and more is here to help you as you embark on the joshi journey of your lifetime! And final words of advice...if a golden goose named OrochiGoose comes near you...run away FAST!

[OrochiGeese]

In recent weeks/months, some of the newer handlers have asked me about edit rules. So I am now going to supplement the info/links in the above "edit" section with more explanations for my approach.

Overall, this is a rule-free fed. I approach FPW edit mode as a set of tools and I don't believe that any ONE individual tool can make or break an edit. Especially since an edit can not be viewed in a vacuum, it needs a dance partner. So while OG-Joshi generally doesn't want 300 point edits, if you found a way to make a 300 point edit that put on competitive matches with existing edits, more power to you for your ingenuity. In that respect, my feds follow an "ends justify the means" strategy for edit making. (OrochiGeese would be proud of such philosophy if he didn't then realize he was only a character in a video game )

One of the most graceful ways of putting this was by someone from another fed - Lord Vermin. He runs Extreme FirePro Wrestling and this is HIS rule for EFW. I think it applies to my feds as well.

"The Prime Directive: No matter how many points it takes, no matter what logic settings you use, no matter what style or size the character has to be, make the character wrestle matches the way you envision he or she should. All other considerations are secondary."

That is my overall attitude when it comes to edits for any of my three feds from myself or contributors.

However, I'd like to take things a step further and give an idea of how I personally make edits. Make no mistake, I make mistakes and do not claim to be the best edit maker ever in the history of ever. (That title belongs to the EditMakerTron5000 machine to be made by Jason Blackhart in the year 2015.) But since a lot of my edits populate this promotion, and some of you have expressed mild praise (or revulsion) for them, I figured I would let you in on my general theories for edit making. Once again, the Prime Directive is paramount but I have a few tendencies that I follow. You don't have to do so.

1) Character is KEY.

LV underlined that part and I thought that it's very important to emphasize the use of the word "character" rather then "edit". That's what I strive to do here with the edits and video matches, make our stories and RP's and written characters come to life in the game. That is the height of edit making in my opinion.

For years I had been working on OrochiGeese's edit and for years it got a bit better (through help from many people). However, it was not until the last major revision in mid 2007 that I finally felt OrochiGeese ARRIVED as an edit: because that is when his edit FINALLY reflected his character.

That doesn't mean his edit is perfect. Personally, I don't think perfection IS possible cause 1) we're dealing with %'s and 2) once again, dance partners MATTER and flex can cause more chaos then OG can. So, yes, in some matches OG may do the Ganso a bit earlier or perform one more Chaos Clutch then I want...but overall, the character of OG and his sense of viciousness is displayed when you sim a match with him. (Sometimes when he goes "one chaos clutch too far", in some matches it works even better for his character, especially against certain opponents). It is due to this "character in edit form" that I can say he is the favorite out of MY edits. He used to just be another "edit", now he's OrochiGeese in Fire Pro form.

There are many of you that have achieved this. I personally still have to achieve this for many of my other edits. (I can count about three to four of mine besides OG that are there). But when someone asks me what I'm looking for in an edit, this is it. This is MY "ends" in the Prime Directive. Now what about "means?"


2) "Splitting face cards"

Be patient here, I'm gonna stretch an analogy too far. Anyone here play Blackjack? Let's say you get dealt two face cards (or 10's) - sometimes you "split" them. This leaves you with two hands and double the chances to win. Now, while that means double the money in Blackjack, what does it mean for pro wrestling?

I tend to make a lot of my edits with their Specials and Finishers spread out around their moveset. This is mainly based around the way I personally see specials - as potential match enders. Some of you have different interpretations and that's cool. I've seen Dick Slender (lol fire pro kayfabe) edits with his standing chop given a special. And that's fine, I get that. I don't subscribe to it personally, but I get that.

I like having the specials (and certainly the finisher) be moves that can end a match. I make a lot of my edits in the 1990's All Japan-NOAH vein in having about 5 moves they are known for credibly finishing a match with. Often one of those are a very rare big move but it doesn't always have to be. (Also, by no means is an edit constrained to winning with JUST those 5 moves either. Viva flash pins!)

Getting back to the original Blackjack point, I like to spread the 5 aforementioned winning moves (4 specials + 1 finisher) across the moveset. That way, the wrestler has a chance to win a match from a variety of different positions. It makes the wrestler a threat from almost anywhere vs. just a danger in a few predictable positions. Granted, certain positions have more moveset slots and happen more frequently in matches - front grapple being the best example. So sometimes I may stick two specials or a finisher and a special in front grapple, but generally I don't do it that much. If I do, one tends to be very rare (2-4%). I really like having a bunch of different positions a wrestler can win in with specials.

Of course, since there are only 3 sequences in FPR, you sometimes have to either shoehorn those specials/finisher into the sequences given OR perhaps a few of your specials/finishers are submissions/impact pins/flash pins and you don't have to use the sequences for them.


3) "Equal or layered"

If you see some merit in my "splits" approach, there's another consideration. Let's say you have your finisher/specials spread out amongst your moveset. You now have to decide how frequently you want those moves to come out in comparison to EACH OTHER. How will the specials rate against each other in frequency? Will some be more rare, and hence, more powerful? Or will they all be just about the same?

OrochiGeese is an example of a "layered" edit. Here are his big moves in order of frequency.

Finisher - Burning Hammer - rarely see it in even 15-20 sims.
Special - Ganso Bomb
Special - Cattle Mutilation
Special - Elevated German Suplex
Special - Orochi Crossface - Usually will see two-three per 15 minute match.

It's rare you will see an OG match without an Orochi Crossface. There are two ways for it to happen (sequenced from taunt and also random ground logic) and it's one of his staples to win with. It's rare you will see an OG match WITH a Burning Hammer. The three specials in the middle tend to happen around once a match each with some variance. Now, OG isn't someone who tries to finish matches too often. But if he WAS, then I'd want to give him another special (or general move that can finish a match) front grapple section just cause the ganso is kinda infrequent. But I feel this situation works for him. (plus his moonsault)

However, the potential danger in the "layered" system is if you put a big and rare finisher/special in the grapple section that happens most frequently (often, front grapple). So you'd want to make sure that section isn't ignored. OG's front grapple section is dedicated to his Ganso bomb. But he has those other more frequent ways to end a match so that I usually don't feel the match drags. Still, it's something to consider and check on, especially if you use the front grapple section for a somewhat rare move. Basically if there's any position to have two ways to win a match (they don't have to be specials/finishers either), front grapple is the best candidate. But of course, it depends on your character so your mileage WILL vary.

Lucy Cutlass from LAWL is an example of a more "equal" edit in that pretty much all her specials/finishers happen around the same frequency as to each other. That made her easy to plan for but her big moves don't have any huge relative strength to each other. Given that she's largely a rookie, that's fine. I tend to favor a "layered" approach for my main eventers cause it allows certain moves to be built up very big.


4) "Just get to the POINT, already!"

Ok, points. A section of FPR edits that I feel people wrongfully obsess over. It's just another tool. While it's true that OG-Joshi edits tend to hover around a certain point total, it's not an end, just a coincidental means. I tend to give my edits higher defensive stats then offensive cause I feel it allows matches to be stretched out enough so that a "layered" edit can really shine. (Watching a 20 minute match where two edits gradually burst out their big stuff in ascending order of strength is very satisfying to me).

One thing to keep in mind when setting your points is "strength vs. frequency." If your edit is an expert puncher, do you want that expertise to be reflected through strength or frequency? Cause if you have both at too high a degree, your edit is more likely to squash. If your edit favors punching a lot but isn't that strong, that's one approach. Give him a low enough punch stat so that his frequent punching won't dominate. If you are more of a "one punch KO" kinda guy, then give yourself a somewhat high stat (I won't say what number, you must test it!) and reserve a few moves towards the end of the match that use that high stat. Obviously there is a continuum between strength and frequency here and I was just giving the two extremes. Find the balance that works for your edit's matches and character.

As for overall points, I don't even want that to be looked at seriously. Certain skills or abilities can cause your overall points to skyrocket. A fast walker or a special skill (one that barely even triggers, no less) can add like 20-40 points to your overall total but not make a HUGE difference. In fact, two extra points given to a frequent puncher will make a bigger difference then a 15 point special skill that rarely kicks in.

Remember, edit mode is a toolbox and points are tools, not measures. If you make an X point edit and it works the way you want AND is competitive with the edits you and I want it to be, then that's the end of story. I don't care if X = 30 points or 300 points. End of story. You win. Pass Go, Collect $200.


I think that's just about it but I reserve the right to add to this section as I get more ideas. Or edit it if someone convinces me I'm totally wrong or crazy. In the meantime, remember that we place a high premium on fun and easygoingness. If you feel your edit is working the way you want, don't worry about all this gabblygook. If you feel your edit could use improvement but are intimidated by this huge post (whether you agree with the info or not), take it slow and discuss it with me. As much time as I spend with all this, I still believe this whole e-fed thing should be taken with a relaxed approach. Now, back to the diamond mines!

- OrochiGeese

[OrochiGeese]

Well, what do you know - an addition to my above thoughts! Just file this under the same guidelines as above: this is just my opinion, isn't a concrete OG-Joshi rule. It's something I do and think it helps matches but you don't have to follow it to a tee. Though I do think it's certainly worth a serious look. And sometimes a great match ending due to a failure to follow it could lead to hair being torn out of my head ;D


5) "Tightening up the logics: Idle hand grapples (submissions)"

I know at least two people know what I'm thinking here and to you two, I'll give a special exception after I'm done with my main point. To the rest of you, specifically those who suffer from the problem of idle hands doing terrible terrible things to your opponent's late match bodies, I ask you this:

If you see a submission attempt occur when your opponent is in low/mid damage and can resist it easy, do you want to see that same submission end the match? Would a move and finish be more or less over if its already tried early and fails, only for it to suddenly work at the end?

And is there any merit to just having moves be available in every category just because?

I'd answer no to all those questions. If I see a move like a camel clutch at the 5-10 minute mark of a 20 minute match (assuming its the mid point/mid damage section) and then that move occurs to win, I'm kind of surprised. And not in the good way. In the "Man I hope that was flex screwing up" way.

(I know sometimes a large damage sub may happen early into the large damage section and then late. It happens and that's more of a % problem then a design problem. Granted when it does happen, I usually discard the match but again, that's not something you can always guard against.)

Now sometimes this is just a result of not "tightening up the logic" - Sometimes its just a mistake. I've literally seen 35 minute epic matches ended with a back grapple 5% weak surfboard hold and wanted to tear my hair out. I don't really get why that move was even in there late (when it was like 25% at low damage) and when pressed, the answer was "whoops, I forgot to take it out." This happens. It's happened to me. But my plea to all of you is to check EVERY SINGLE category where one of your submissions are used and really ask yourselves do you want each submission occurring every place you have it.

It's not just submissions but since those could end matches, it's really the point here. But as a general point, there's nothing wrong with using 0's late in the match just as you would use 0's early in the match. I remember when I first did logic, i felt a need to distribute numbers but later on I realized certain moves just don't belong at certain times. Very often this is purely a subjective thing (arm drag late in the match? It works for some guys). But when it comes to submissions, i think a line should be drawn right in between the early/mid and late damage categories that you say. "YOU SHALL NOT PASS."

There's nothing wrong with having 0% in certain damage categories and I think it's a good thing. Just as you wouldn't have a finisher submission at anything higher then 0% early, you don't want an early stretch move (that can win the match) happen late to ruin the flow.

I get that some people may want to tease submissions specials and having like the crippler crossface happen as an early attempt isn't a bad idea. But if it happens more then twice before endgame, you're looking at that move getting awfully diluted. Just as a head drop move would be in that case.

So I guess to sum up - think of being a concise writer. (something I'm not...evidently ;D ) Everything has a purpose and nothing extra is used where it doesn't belong cause it would just dilute what you are trying to get across. Think of the matches and endings you WANT your edit to have. Granted not every match will be a 20 minute singles epic...but I doubt there are many of you that would REALLY want even ONE match to end with a move that you are doing within 5 minutes of the match starting.


The exception here are "Combo moves/sequences". Some people have edits who have an earlier move that is then incorporated into a bigger sequence at the end of a match. While I don't always like the specific sequences, I get the idea of the "Voltronning" of the moves. Like an early camel clutch foreshadowing a full nelson bomb -> Camel clutch sequence. (with that sequence sometimes being treated as "one move or unified concept") It's pretty much a form of move progression psychology and I think that always works, it's just a question of what moves are used. So this is really the exception to my thoughts above. If i see an early sub late in the match as part of a sequence, its not exactly "the same early move" that is ending the match. It's part of a greater whole and is similar to something like an early brainbuster being used later in the form of a brainbuster DDT. It evolves into something bigger then itself for the final finish attempt.

Admittedly I didn't always recognize that exception but Wonderland and Sword helped me see the light there. So props to them for helping me to evolve my own opinion on the matter 8)

That concludes our session today. My hopes for clean edit making, even if it's for dirty edits ;D